An Urban Pop Conversation with Lisa Henry
Ricky:
Hello Lisa thanks for having this little chat with me. How are you?
Lisa:
I’m great. 2009 has been very busy for me so far and I’m truly grateful, considering the dismal economic climate we’re in. Early in the year I curated the photo portion of Connections for Karen Jenkins-Johnson. It was a unique experience. Once Karan decided on the theme and the title for the show. We presented works related to that theme in both her New York and San Francisco galleries simultaneously! In March I helped organize a version of Sheila Pree Bright’s Young Americans (http://www.sheilapreebright.com) photo exhibition for the west coast. With the assistance of Prof. Bridget R Cooks we mounted the show at the University of California At Irvine. And just last week Double Exposure, the traveling exhibition I co-curated with Dr. Wm. Frank Mitchell, opened in Chicago!
Ricky:
So tell my readers a little about yourself...where are you from?
Lisa:
I’m from New York, “The City”, as my friends used to say in High School. LOL.
I usually describe myself this way: I was forged in New York but I choose to live in LA. I have lived on the west coast, on and off, for over 10yrs now. But I go back and forth so often that I consider both cities home. I’m a bi-coastal kinda gal.
Ricky:
Where did you go to school? What was your major?
Lisa:
I went to college at Brown University in Rhode Island where I majored in American Civilization with a focus on 20th c American Art. Then I decided that I had had enough of the rain and I moved to California. I got my MA in Critical and Curatorial Studies at UCLA.
Ricky:
So have you always been interested in curating? What drew you to curating as opposed to being an artist or gallerist?
Lisa:
Well, for the record: I’m not a failed artist or an aspiring gallery owner. I’ve never been interested in selling, and as much as I love visual art, I would much rather talk with an artist or write about their work than attempt to do what they do.
I have loved museums from the time I was in high school. I still think that The Metropolitan Museum of Art is one of the coolest places in the world. Period. And when I discovered that caring for the artwork in a museum was an actual JOB and that you could get paid for organizing the exhibitions and rotating what was on the walls, I just decided that was what I wanted to do for a living. I focused my attention on how I could eventually have a job where I could work directly with artists and museums and organize exhibitions.
Ricky:
Actually a huge focus of this blog is to share art with an audience of readers who may not currently be collectors or huge art fans, so please explain briefly the differences between a curator, gallerist and artist.
Lisa:
Curators either work for a specific arts institution or they work independently – A museum curator is responsible for maintaining and caring for that museum’s collection this also includes working on exhibitions for that institution on a regular basis. An independent curator, like myself, works for different museums and galleries organizing a variety of art exhibitions.
A gallerist is someone who owns an art gallery and so they also organize exhibitions but if their gallery is a for-profit or private art business the work that they show is for sale anyone can walk right in and buy what is on display.
And an artist, well, you know that’s often a matter of opinion. I say, if you call yourself an artist, then you are one, but that doesn’t mean I have to like your work. LOL.
But the differences between these three “jobs” can get blurry. Today many artists also curate exhibitions, and some people move between the academic world to the museum world, and vice versa. Some people have even gone from for-profit art endeavors to non-profit ones…. These days there are not as many hard and fast rules for how to operate within the art world. There are brilliant people out there like Deborah Willis who does it all – artist-professor-museum curator, author, and consultant. I suppose the only thing she hasn’t done yet is start her own gallery, but if she ever wanted to it would be amazing!
Ricky:
Let’s talk about Double Exposure. I’ve shared information on the show with my readers, but let’s recap for anyone who may have missed that post…what is Double Exposure and how did the show come about?
Lisa:
Double Exposure was an exhibition that Frank Mitchell and I originally curated in 2006 for The Amistad center for Art & Culture in Hartford, Connecticut (http://amistadartandculture.org/). We wanted to organize an exhibition that would highlight The Amistad’s historical collection of photographs by showing how influential the work of photographic pioneers has been to contemporary photographers. We wanted to bring the past alive and to demonstrate that there has been an important dialog between the past and the present in much of African American photography.
In 2007, the Aetna Foundation (http://www.aetna.com/foundation/) made a generous donation to The Amistad that allowed us to reconstitute and expand Double Exposure and tour the show nationally. Now, we are able to present the show to a much wider audience, and that’s very gratifying!
Ricky:
There’s such a rich history of African-American photography, it must have been tough to select the work for the show. What was that process like?
Lisa:
It was a really hard. The list of talented and influential black photographers is long and the history is very deep! But we made an important decision at the outset. Our intention was not to present an all-inclusive presentation of African American photography, or to give viewers a strictly chronological view of this amazing history. We approached the show thematically – which didn’t necessarily make it easier to choose between artists, but it did alleviate some of the pressure to include EVERYBODY. And because I was working with another curator, the process was very interesting. Frank knows the Amistad’s collection very well and has curated many shows for them while I had been aware of their collection but had never had the opportunity to discover all the gems they have acquired over he years. So Frank brought this tremendous knowledge of the collection and it’s history and I was much more engaged with contemporary photographers who were continually making new photographs, many of whom I felt were still not getting as many opportunities to exhibit as they should.
Ricky:
Who are some of the artists in the show?
Lisa:
It is a multi generational show. There are examples early photographic icons like Augustus Washington and James Van Der Zee, as well as photographers who have had long careers and are extremely well established, and who continue to make photo-based work like Betye Saar, Roy DeCarava, Deborah Willis, Lewis Watts, Carrie Mae Weems and Lorna Simpson. Then we have included a number of emerging photographers, Some of whom are much better known now then they were when we mounted the original show in Connecticut in 2006. Some of the younger artists are Sheila Pree Bright (http://www.sheilapreebright.com), Myra Greene (http://myragreene.com/), Bayte Ross Smith, Stephanie Lindsey, Leslie Hewitt (Hewitt) and Hank Willis Thomas (http://hankwillisthomas.com).
Ricky:
Do you have a particular passion for photography as an art form?
Lisa:
Absolutely. I’m very interested in contemporary art in general but I have been fascinated with photography since I was a kid. I was always looking at the photos in magazines and paying attention to how important pictures were to telling the story whether it was a music magazine, a news magazine or a fashion magazine.
When I was ready for college there really were only a few schools in the country where you could actually study photo history in depth. Unfortunately, Brown was not one of those schools but their program allowed me to be very creative and I always tried to integrate the history of photography into my course work.
Ricky:
Who are some of your personal favorites? Who are some of the emerging photographers you think we should keep our eyes on?
Lisa:
Of course all the younger artists in Double Exposure should be on people’s radar ☺ Gerald Cyrus and Orville Robertson (http://www.newyorkstreetphotography.com/Orville_Robertson_Web_Site/Home.html) are photographers I think more people show be aware of. They have each been shooting for many years – both work in the tradition of street photography. Gerald also does amazing portraits. Both of them have completely “emerged” as artists, but I think they each have wonderful bodies of work that people should be taking note of. … Younger image-makers whose works are really lovely and engaging include Kira Lynn Harris (who works in a lot of different media but she also makes beautiful photographs), Felicia Meggenson and Isabelle Lutterodt. Brenna Youngblood has done some really neat work that combines painting and photography.
Ricky:
How significant is a show like Double Exposure as it relates to carving out a place for the contributions of African-American artists to photography?
Lisa:
All shows that feature good work by photographers of color help to give the public a deeper understanding of the contribution of African Americans to the broader history of art. Blacks have been making compelling photographs since the medium was invented back in the 19th c. There are so many wonderful image-makers out there! With Double Exposure I tried to include a broad range of styles and photographic techniques in order to talk about themes of inspiration and influence that span generations. I hope that this show will help people to make more connections and to see that the history of American Photography includes many, many photographers of color.
Ricky:
The show is currently in Chicago, where is it off to next? How long will it run?
Lisa:
The show will go to The Southeast Museum of Photography and then to The David Driskell Center at the University of Maryland. It will conclude in the spring of 2011.
Ricky:
How has curating this show affected your perspective on curating as a discipline?
Lisa:
Since I was working with another curator, artists living all across the country, and the organizing institution was 3,000 miles away from where I lived - I would say that Double Ex taught me a lot about collaboration! It was a big show to organize in 2006 but it was important that we give the viewing public different points of entry into the show. For example, there are historical works, photographers who were very well known internationally, and we included artists who use family photographs in their work so that, hopefully, no matter how much you did or didn’t know about the history of photography, there would be something in the show that might draw you in. So it was a complicated process. And then when we went back to reorganize it as a traveling exhibition, I definitely learned how to manage my time better and to be flexible.
Being a good curator means being open enough to incorporate new ideas and realizing that some of these ideas will actually make the show stronger. At the same time staying true to your core concept is essential. Working on Double Exposure reinforced my belief that curating exhibitions is about creating a space for dialog as opposed to arranging a series of rooms that read as a monolog, or worse; a lecture!
Ricky:
What has been the most difficult aspect of pulling together a touring show of this scale?
Lisa:
There are a lot of artists in the show and the scale of the work ranges from fragile 19th century daguerreotypes, that can fit in the palm of your hand, to wall sized installations with numerous parts that take hours to hang. So the logistics of packing, shipping and installation continue to be challenging.
Ricky:
The art world isn’t the most integrated field in America, what have some of your challenges been as an African-American woman doing your job? Do you ever sense that being a woman has ever kept you out a position you really wanted to be in?
Lisa:
It’s a difficult field in general for minorities and women but in terms of exhibition work specifically; at times it has been difficult to get opportunities to curate shows that are not simply about race and gender. Also, there are so few full-time jobs at museums and the competition for those positions is just crazy. So many applicants for every job that opens up and these jobs don’t even pay that much. Nobody goes into curating to get rich! So in addition to race and gender there are also issues of class that make working consistently as a curator very challenging – especially in times like these.
Ricky:
I’m always interested in ways that we who love art can share it with a greater audience. Do you feel like the art world does enough to share fine art with “regular folks?” And if not, what do you think are some ways in which the out reach can be made more effective?
Lisa:
Museums, galleries and artists themselves need to be open to new forms of communication and networking to get the info and the images out there.
It’s also important for people who work in the arts to get the message across that ALL creative expression should be shared with everyone… Two years ago I did a project with the Japanese American National Museum (http://www.janm.org/) here in LA to help them work on ways to expand their audience beyond the Asian population here in town. That was really meaningful project and I enjoyed working with them a lot. That museum and the art and culture that they focus on, is for everybody. Anybody can enjoy their exhibitions and public programs and have a great time at JANM. Same is true for any museum. Maybe new media and things like this blog can help get the word out and make people feel more comfortable exploring all different kinds of artists and creative expression that might be available to them in their city and also throughout the world via the internet.
Ricky:
I am constantly encouraging my friends and family to start collecting art. Are you a collector? Can you offer any suggestions on how to start collecting and what a good strategy might be?
Lisa:
Well, ethically speaking I feel that a curator should not be buying art for themselves. Others may feel differently but for me it’s a bit of a conflict of interest. But I too encourage my friends and family to collect art. A good way to start is by going to galleries and seeing different shows in order to figure out what kinds of things you like and what you don’t, and ask questions. People who work at galleries are there to offer information and background on artists and should be able to answer the questions you may have. If they can’t they will tell you where to find more info.
A good way to begin collecting photographs, for example, is to become a member of an organization or a museum that offers a collector print program. This way you are supporting an artist as well as a non-profit organization by buying the prints that they offer for sale every year. En Foco and SF Camerawork have this program and I’m sure that many east coast organizations have similar programs to help get new collectors more involved.
Ricky:
How do you find emerging artists? What are the most important elements in new work or traits in an artist you look for when you are searching for emerging talent?
Lisa:
I try to keep my eyes and ears open. I look at a lot of art publications and there are some great websites that either feature works by a range of different artists or their site/blog will have links to other artists. In addition to your blog I always check Carla Williams’ carlagirl.net. This is an great online resource for finding out about new photographers as well as learning about photographic history. Carla is both an amazing photographer and a scholar. What she has created online has been a constant source of inspiration to me. I also participate in art conferences and reviews. I will be a reviewer for En Foco’s (http://www.enfoco.org/)portfolio review on June 20th.
I am interested in different types of photography and so I can’t say that there is one thing that I always look for. The work has to speak to me. That may sound cliché but it’s true. Regardless of the technique the artist might be using or even the subject matter, some work by emerging artists will seem very compelling to me while with others, I’m just not drawn in.
Ricky:
Do you think all artists should attend art school?
Lisa:
Not necessarily. I’m not against art school but by the same token it’s not for everybody. Having said that, though, the art is in many ways just like any other professional group where getting a degree can offer you access to certain networks and certain opportunities. Also, if you can afford it, art school can be an important experience offering a place to focus, learn your craft, experiment, and get to know established artists (your instructors) and get feedback from your peers. It’s not for everyone and it’s certainly no guarantee that you will be able to make a living solely by selling your art but it is an option that should be considered.
Ricky:
What’s next for you?
Lisa:
I’m working with The MAK For Art and Architecture (http://www.makcenter.org/) Center in LA on a show called How Many Billboards on the Boulevard, which will open next year. Kimberli Meyer, the Director of The MAK, invited three curators and myself to organize this group show. Thee artists we invite will create billboard size art. The works will be displayed on actual billboards throughout Los Angeles! It’s a really exciting project! This will be the first time that I have worked with art that will be out in public space as opposed to inside a museum/gallery. The themes we are looking at include the visual culture that is often associated with LA (Hollywood, movies, consumer culture, etc) and the influence of conceptual and pop art on California artists.
Ricky:
We’re gonna wrap this up, but in parting….just answer these last questions with the first thing that comes to mind…u ready?
Lisa:
Van Der Zee or Gordon Parks?
Both continue to inspire me. Van Der Zee’s images are beautiful and man, what an archive he produced!!! And Parks was a true renaissance man and a gentleman. Meeting him at the opening reception of Saturday Night/Sunday Morning at Leica gallery in 2003 was one of the most memorable events in my young career as a curator.
Ricky:
Chocolate or caramel?
Lisa:
What? Where are you going with this? I tend not to think in binary terms, except maybe when it comes to dessert. If forced to choose I’ll say “Chocolate”, though chocolate ice cream with caramel sauce sounds tasty…
Ricky:
LA or New York?
Lisa:
OK. Clearly we are on different wavelengths, here. I rarely see things as either/or. I try to work and live in ways that keep me open to new possibilities and opportunities while acknowledging the importance of past experiences. I love both cities for different reasons. Binaries only work, I think, when the choice involves chocolate.
Ricky:
Brooklyn or Harlem?
Lisa:
Depends – am I eating, seeing a museum show, meeting friends for coffee, buying shoes?
Ricky:
Figurative or abstract?
Lisa:
Lord have mercy, do you do this with all your interview subjects?
Ricky:
Deborah Willis or Hank Willis Thomas?
Lisa:
Now I know you’re crazy!
Deborah is one of my mentors and Hank is a talented emerging artist. BOTH are my friends and continually offer inspiration. I’m telling you Ricky, this either/or thing is insane. But the interview was a lot of fun.
Thanks for the opportunity!
Ricky:
LOL…I'd never really try to make you choose between those two. They're both incredible talents and really wonderful people. They were among the first people in the art world to make me feel comfortable.
Lisa:
You are right about that. Deborah has done so much in the field and opened it up for people like me to come into the field and believe that I can make a significant contribution, in my own way. And Hank is quite an interesting artist that I am always happy to work with.
Lisa, thank you for your time and have a great day. Make sure you tell all your friends and colleagues to subscribe to the blog. Speaking of which…did you Pop today?
